Q. Was anybody else sent to or directed to attend the trial on Gotti, Sr.'s behalf?
A. Yes. They wanted to throw some celebrities into the gallery so maybe it could influence the jury, such as a person like Mickey Rourke, Anthony Quinn, Al Lewis, John Amos, Jay Black of Jay and the Americans.
Q. Did Gravano end up testifying against Gotti, Sr. during this trial?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. What was the result of the trial?
A. He was convicted.
Q. Do you recall in particular what he was convicted of?
A. Murder, racketeering, Paul Castellano's murder.
Q. Do you remember approximately when it was that the jury returned that verdict?
A. I would say around April of '92.
Q. What was your personal reaction to the conviction of John Gotti, Sr.?
A. Very angry, angry and troubled. He was going to die in jail now. I liked John.
Q. Did you discuss with John Gotti, Jr. his reaction to the verdict?
A. Yes. He was devastated and very angry.
Q. Do you recall there being a lot of press coverage at the time that John Gotti, Sr. was on trial and ultimately convicted?
A. It was on every channel everywhere.
Q. Was the press coverage favorable to the Gottis?
A. No, all negative.
Curtis Sliwa Attacked
Q. Do you recognize the name Curtis Sliwa?
Q. Have you ever met Curtis Sliwa?
Q. Who did you know him to be in the spring of 1992?
A. Talk show host with an ax to grind for some reason against the Gottis, real big mouth.
Q. Do you recall in particular his reaction to the conviction of John Gotti, Sr.?
A. Yes. He seemed like he was opening up champagne. He was very happy, celebrating, and he just wouldn't let it go.
Q. What did you think of that?
A. Very angry.
Q. Did there come a time after Gotti, Sr. was convicted that you and John Gotti, Jr. discussed the bad press that the Gottis were getting from Curtis Sliwa?
A. Well, we discussed the bad press throughout the whole thing. It wasn't just after the conviction, that Sliwa wouldn't stop. He was ranting and raving.
Q. On how many occasions did this topic come up?
A. We talked -- it bothered John a lot, so it would come up often.
Q. What in particular did John Gotti, Jr. say he wanted to do it about it?
A. He was going to give him a beating. He wanted to send some guys to give him a beating.
Q. Did there come a time that you learned that John Gotti, Jr. had made good on that desire?
Q. Where were you at that time?
A. I believe we were in Florida, and John had told me he sent these kids over to give him a baseball bad beating.
Q. You said we were in Florida. Who were you referring to?
A. John, myself, and some others.
Q. What were you doing in Florida?
Q. What in particular did John Gotti, Jr. say about this baseball bat beating?
A. He said he sent these kids over to do it, McLaughlin, Kaplan, Ruggiero.
Q. Is that the same Kaplan that we saw on Government's Exhibit 163?
A. That's correct.
Q. If we could pull 163 up again just to make sure. Where is Kaplan shown in this photograph?
A. Right there.
Q. You also mentioned that the two other associates of John Gotti, Jr. that participated in this baseball bat attack were Michael McLaughlin and John Ruggiero?
A. That's correct.
Q. Can we see 159B again. Do you see those two individuals in that photo?
A. Kaplan, McLaughlin.
Q. Do you see John Ruggiero in that photo?
Q. OK. What was your reaction at the time to this news from John Gotti, Jr. that he had Sliwa beaten up with a baseball bat?
A. He deserved it. He had it coming. He was slamming our family all over the place. Especially John the boss didn't deserve that.
Q. Did that baseball bat attack on Sliwa succeed in silencing him?
A. No. It made him more angry. This guy was all over the radio worse than before.
Q. Did there come a time that John Gotti, Jr. again brought up the subject of Curtis Sliwa?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Approximately when was this?
A. A couple of months later.
Q. Do you recall where you were when you and John Gotti, Jr. again discussed the topic of Curtis Sliwa?
A. Yes. He asked me to go get an individual named Joe D'Angelo and meet him somewhere.
Q. OK. Who is Joe D'Angelo at this time?
A. He was an associate of Gravano and then was an associate of Lou Vallario, who was a captain.
Q. Can we pull up Government's Exhibit 16, please.
A. That's D'Angelo.
Q. At the time in 1992 when you're having this second or subsequent discussion about Curtis Sliwa after the baseball bat attack, what was Joey D'Angelo's rank in the family?
A. He was an associate.
Q. What, if anything, did John Gotti, Jr. ask you to do with regard to Joey D'Angelo?
A. He asked me to get in touch with his captain, which was Lou Vallario and Joey, and bring them to the place out in Queens.
Q. Did you do that?
A. Vallario wasn't around, so I brought D'Angelo out myself.
A. I believe it was the Carousel Diner on Cross Bay Boulevard.
Q. This Carousel Diner, had you ever been there before?
Q. Approximately how many times?
A. A few times. Maybe half a dozen times.
Q. Where was the Carousel Diner located in relation to the Bergin Hunt & Fish club?
A. Several miles away. It was in Howard Beach.
Q. What happened when you and Joey D'Angelo got to the diner that day?
A. I found John, Jr., Nicky Corozzo, Mike Yannotti and on some other guys.
Q. Where were they located? Were they inside or outside the diner?
Q. You mentioned three individuals there. Nicky Corozzo, what was his position at the time?
A. He was a captain.
Q. You also said that there was an individual with him Michael Yannotti?
A. He was an associate of Nicky.
Q. And this Michael Yannotti, have you ever been introduced to him before?
A. Yes. Not as a wise guy. He wasn't straightened out at the time.
Q. Who introduced you to Michael Yannotti before?
A. Nicky Corozzo.
Q. OK. When you got to the Carousel Diner, did you ultimately sit down at the table with some of these individuals?
Q. Who was seated at the table outside the diner?
A. John, Jr., Nicky Corozzo, D'Angelo, Yannotti and myself.
Q. I just want to refer you to 49 on the screen there. Who do you recognize that to be?
A. That's Yannotti.
Q. So what happened once the five of you were now assembled around this table outside the diner?
A. After some small talk, John says, "You guys are brought here to do a piece of work for the family."
Q. What was your reaction to that?
A. I thought we were killing somebody.
Q. And did John Gotti, Jr. continue the discussion at that point?
A. Yes, he named Curtis Sliwa, that he was fed up, really angry, and that he wanted Nicky Corozzo to handle this and have this guy severely hurt, put in the hospital, severe hospital beating.
Q. When John Gotti, Jr. is saying this about how he wants Sliwa hurt, who was he directing this order at?
A. Nicky, Mike, and Joe.
Q. And when Gotti, Jr. mentioned Sliwa, was that the first time you understood who the intended victim was?
A. Yes. At that night, yes.
Q. So, just to be clear, when John Gotti, Jr. earlier had asked to you bring Joey D'Angelo to the diner, did you know why you were going there in the first place?
Q. When John Gotti, Jr. announces that the intended victim is Curtis Sliwa, did he say why he wanted him attacked again?
A. Yes. Like I said, Sliwa just wouldn't stop. He was just, lambasting the whole family, especially, like I said, the Gottis. John, Sr., the guy got convicted leave him alone. I believe he started picking on Vicky, John's sister, and Gene Gotti with drugs, being called a drug dealer and all this other stuff. He just wouldn't let it go. The guy was already convicted.
Q. You said that John Gotti, Jr. directed towards Corozzo, D'Angelo, and Yannotti, the order that Sliwa be given a severe hospital beating. What is a severe hospital beating in Cosa Nostra terms.
A. As bad a beating as you can give him without killing him.
Q. How does a hospital play into that?
A. He's got to go to the hospital and stay there for a while.
Q. According to Gotti, how was this plan going to be carried out?
A. Nicky was going to handle all the details and how it was going to be done.
Q. And what, if anything, was Joseph D'Angelo supposed to do as the meeting concluded?
A. He was supposed to meet up with Nicky and Yannotti and follow Nicky's direction on what the plan would be and how it was carried out.
Q. How did this meeting end?
A. Just like that, that Joey was going to go to Nicky, hook up with him.
Q. What is the next thing you heard about Curtis Sliwa?
A. He was shot.
Q. How did you come to hear that?
A. On the news.
Q. What was your reaction?
A. I ran to find out, find D'Angelo and find out what happened.
Q. OK. Just to be clear, was Sliwa getting shot part of the plan that was discussed in your presence at the Carousel Diner?
A. No. There was no mention of killing this guy.
Q. How did that strike you when you got the news, heard on the news that Sliwa had been shot?
A. That something went really wrong, and I was curious to find out what happened. This guy may die. I wanted to find out whether there was a murder on our hands.
Q. So where did you go?
A. I went to find D'Angelo.
Q. Did you?
Q. Where did you find him?
A. On 18th Avenue.
Q. And when you found Joe D'Angelo, what did you say to him?
A. I said what happens over here. Joey was very upset with Yannotti, and started telling me the story how they picked him up in the morning.
Q. I'm sorry to interrupt, but picked who up in the morning?
A. Curtis Sliwa. They found out where he lived, staked out his apartment, and when he would come out in the morning he would usually jump in a cab and go to work. He told me he had a cab, or some kind of car service, that they robbed a car, and waited outside for him to come out of the door, and pulled up and let him get in the cab. But they had the cab rigged, and he did -- in fact he comes out, jumped in the cab, and that Yannotti was hiding under the front seat in the dashboard, crouched down. And Joey said as soon as this guy jumped in the cab, xx Mike got up and started shooting him.
Q. And what was D'Angelo's reaction to that?
A. He was very angry. He said he would never do anything with this kid, anything again, never ask him to do anything again with him.
Q. According to Joey D'Angelo, what became of Curtis Sliwa?
A. Oh. Upon that, as Yannotti was shooting him, he jumped out one of the windows to get out of the cab.
Q. After you got the report from Joey D'Angelo, did there come a time you spoke directly do John Gotti, Jr. about it?
A. Yes. I believe it was a few days after that, maybe, tops, a week. But I think it was within a few days.
Q. Do you remember where it was that you met him?
A. Out in Queens.
Q. When you met John Gotti, Jr. what did you say to him?
A. I said what happened over here with this kid, Mikey. He said this was a real, excuse my language, he said a real cluster fuck, and that it was a mess.
Q. And what did you take him to mean when he said that this was a "cluster fuck"?
A. That it wasn't supposed to go that way. He wasn't supposed to be shot, to be killed. You shoot somebody, they're not going to die. He was not shot in the leg, he was shot in the torso.
Gotti Sr. Sentenced to Life
Q. Did you attend the sentencing of John Gotti, Sr. in June of 1992?
Q. And where was it held?
A. Brooklyn Federal Court.
Q. And who did you go to the sentencing with?
Q. And when you got there, did you go inside?
Q. Where did you stand?
A. We were outside. There was a park right outside of the street from the federal building there.
Q. And as you stood outside the courthouse that day with John Gotti, Jr. did you come to learn what sentence had been imposed on Gotti, Sr.?
A. Yes. He got life.
Promoted to Full Captain
Q. Now, did there come a time, shortly after Gotti Sr. was sentenced to life in prison, that you received yet another promotion in the Gambino family?
A. Yes. I, around sometime into, or maybe '93, I became an official captain.
Q. And who was the first one to tell you that you had been promoted to official captain?
A. John, Jr.
Q. Did John Gotti, Jr. ever offer you a higher position in the Gambino family than that of official captain?
Q. What was that?
A. He wanted me to be on the committee, be up front on the committee and help out run the family.
Q. Approximately when did he make that offer to you?
A. I believe it was when Jimmy Brown gets pinched and was on his way to jail.
Q. Jimmy Brown Failla?
A. Jimmy Brown Failla pinched sometime in April '93, he goes away the fall of '94, so it was somewhere around there.
Q. And did you accept John Gotti, Jr.'s position, offer of a position on the ruling committee of the family?
A. No. I figured it was best to turn it down, for several reasons. One, I was young. There was a lot of oldtimers out there. I advised John it would be a bad precedent to put me up there, being everybody knows how close we are, leave the oldtimers up front and, you know, I could escape some law enforcement scrutiny at that level. It gets around right away, law enforcement finds out I got a promotion, I would got a lot of heat. It wouldn't be good for the both of us.
Q. Even though you turned down that position on the committee as official captain, did you continue to manage the family's construction records throughout '93 and thereafter?
Q. And, again, what did that mean to you on a day-to-day basis?
A. I was in charge of this, and I had to bring in the money.
Q. And when you say "the money," what kind of money are we talking about?
A. Construction extortion of the concrete companies and contractors.
Collecting the Mob Tax
Q. Is there another term in the trade for construction extortion money?
A. Yes, I called it "mob tax". It is a tax. Being like we are our own government, a tax. The government taxes, we tax; we tax everyone. So, mob tax.
Q. Did companies ordinarily pay this mob tax?
A. Oh, yeah.
Q. And what happened when they didn't?
A. We give them a problem, or push it up.
Q. How so?
A. Put pressure on them in some way, and then threaten to hurt them.
Q. Can you give us a particular example of the time when the Gambino family actually resorted, or had to resort to the threat of violence to get a construction contractor to pay?
A. Well, it was to get a job. Actually, it was the prison job in Brooklyn. And we had a company that was bidding on it and the GC of the job may have given it to somebody else.
Q. Let me break that down a little bit. You say it was a prison job?
A. Yes. Federal prison holding center.
Q. The Metropolitan Detention Center?
A. That's correct; Brooklyn.
Q. And who was building this federal prison?
A. The government gave the contract, I believe, originally, to Scalamandri. And Scalamandri had a company called Trataris who was around Anthony Graziani. And Eddie Garafola had a good relationship with him. And we were trying to get a fellow, Tony Genovese to contract there. And Tony Genovese had bid the job, so we wanted to make sure he got it.
Q. And, initially, was Tony Genovese and his company able to get that subcontract?
A. I think, in the end run he would've gotten it anyway, Eddie felt it was necessary to go up there and threaten everybody to be hit in the head with a baseball bat if he didn't get the contract.
Q. Did he do that?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And in the end, did the contract get awarded to Genovese?
Q. Now, what do you do with all of the money, this mob tax money that you were collected from construction companies, labor unions, that the family controlled and extorted?
A. Tax, took out our end that we were designated to take; anything with unions or concrete, we took out one third and two-thirds would go into the family. And any job that we got later on that had nothing to do with union or concrete, Eddie and I would take out 50 percent and turn in 50 percent.
Q. Who were you turning this money in to?
A. At that point in time, I turned all of that money into John, Jr.
Q. And when you say you turned it in to John Gotti, Jr. would you give it to him directly, or give it to someone else to give it to John, Jr.?
A. No, I was the only one allowed to put money in his hands from the construction.
Q. When you say "money" are you talking cash or checks?
A. Cash. At that point.
Q. Are you -- well, after you were put in charge, now, of running the construction rackets, did you become aware of certain extortionate relationships that individuals in the family had with contractors that they had not put on record with the Gambino family, and the Gambino family didn't know about?
A. Yes. There were many side deals going on in our family, and in other families; yes, there was.
Q. What does that mean for there to be a "side deal." How was that bad for the family?
A. Well, these guys would operate on their own. If -- if the borgata or family found out about it, then they would be forced to give it in. Otherwise, they would keep the whole thing themselves, whatever deal they made with the other families, the other members. So there was a lot of sneaky stuff going on, and we were trying to pull it together.
Q. What does it mean for the administration of the family if money isn't turned in?
A. That is the way the machine works. That is how they eat; associates, the soldiers, the captains, right on up. That's how we got to eat. All of those industries, unions, and everything belonged to the family. It is not any one individual. We can put somebody there to get a job, delegate a president of a union or whatever, but that all belongs to the family no individual basis on it.
Q. And do you recall learning of a specific off-record deal involving a company called Big Apple?
Q. And remind us, what was Big Apple?
A. They were a demolition company.
Q. Is that the same demolition company you spoke of earlier that was involved in that Gimbels construction site that we saw in those photos with you and Jack D'Amico?
A. That's correct.
Q. And prior to Gravano's arrest and decision to cooperate, who was handling Big Apple for the family?
A. Sammy Gravano.
Q. And what did you learn after Gravano started to cooperate, what did you learn had happened, or become, of Big Apple now that Sammy was no longer out there to control it.
A. For one, to put all of the pieces together, Eddie was not too aggressive. Eddie was scared. At that time, he wasn't really thinking, and they got lost for a little while, for a couple of years. And then we picked up on it later on.
Q. Okay. How did you first get wind that there was now an off-record extortion of Big Apple that the administration didn't know about?
A. Garafola came and told me about it, that Johnny G had his hands into Big Apple, and he was servicing them.
Q. What does it mean to "service" a construction company?
A. Handle them. They would go right in to him, being Johnny G, at that time.
Q. And did anyone else in the family at your level or above, know that Johnny G was out there servicing Big Apple?
Q. So when you got this news from Eddie Garafola, about what Johnny G was doing, what did you do in response?
A. I went pulled him up about it, Johnny G, and asked him. And he says he was just servicing them, he wasn't making any money there, he was just handling them.
Q. And did you accept his explanation?
A. Not really. I went and put it on record with Junior.
Q. So what did you do?
A. We were going to monitor it.
Q. And did there come a time that you got more information about Johnny G and Big Apple?
A. Yes. My brother-in-law, Frankie Fappiano, came to see me. I believe it was at night. And he said Joe Watts had called him. And Joe Watts and Johnny G were very friendly, Danny Marino. Joe Watts was making a claim for Big Apple at this time. When we go see Joe Watts, he's fuming with Johnny G. And he is, the Big Apple had a problem with one of the unions. And Johnny G, he said, was out drunk somewhere, this guy is always drunk, he is neglecting his duties. Joe Watts must have thought I had knew something about this already, Big Apple. And he says I get this guy three, four hundred thousand dollars a year to handle this company, and he is out drunk somewhere and he's steamin’.
Q. What did that mean to you when Joe Watts said that Johnny G was getting three or four hundred thousand dollars a year out of Big Apple?
A. That means a wise guy just lied to me.
Q. What did you do about it?
A. I went out and told Junior.
Q. What was his reaction?
Q. Did he ask you to do anything at that point?
A. Yes. To set up some kind of meeting with Johnny G, Danny Marino, and Joe Watts.
Q. Did he say where?
A. He told me to find a spot, a location.
Plotting to Murder Johnny G.
Q. And did he describe what kind of location he was looking for?
A. Yes. He had said, he was so angry about this, because there was so many beefs coming with Johnny G, this wasn't the only one. He was doing some other side deals with other families that we were getting a sense of, and sitting down over this. He was incensed to the point, and so was I, that something had to be done. And he said that if this meeting breaks bad with Danny Marino and Johhny G -- Danny Marino is Johnny G's captain, then we would kill them on the spot.
Q. Just to be clear who we are talking about now, can we get government's exhibit 39 on the screen. Who is that?
A. That is Danny Marino, captain.
Q. And government exhibit 27.
A. Yeah. That is Gammarano.
Q. That is the same Johnny G who was ripping off the family?
Q. Now after you get the instruction from John Gotti, Jr. to get a place for the meeting with Marino and Johnny G, do you in fact get such a place?
A. Yes, I get a place.
Q. What do you get?
A. An associate of mine, Frankie Milano had an apartment on Bay 11th Street in Brooklyn. And I got that place.
Q. What happened on the day set for the meeting?
A. John Junior came to my house in Brooklyn on 18th Avenue. He came with Tommy Caccipoli and Charles Carnegli
A. They drove there. And John got out of the car. We talked. And I told him where the apartment was.
Q. At that point in time when you're standing on the street and talking to Johnny Gotti, Junior, and Tommy Sneakers and Carneglia are in the car did John Gotti, Jr. tell you why he had brought Caccipoli and Carneglia?
A. Yeah. They were going to do the work.
Q. Meaning what?
A. They were going to kill them, if necessary.
Q. According to John Gotti, Jr. did they have any equipment with them?
A. Yes. They had their guns and body bags.
Q. And what did you and John Gotti, Jr. do at that point?
A. I told them where the location was. John and I went over to the car, told them where it was, to drive over there, and John and I proceeded to walk over to the apartment. It was close to my house.
Q. What happened when you and John Gotti, Jr. got to this apartment?
A. He wasn't happy when he seen. It wasn't a place conducive to killing two guys.
Q. Why not?
A. It was an apartment, it was row houses, and there was somebody lived downstairs.
Q. Did you, nonetheless, go into apartment with John Gotti, Jr.?
Q. What happened once you got inside?
A. Showed him around the apartment. There was a bedroom up from the dining room where Charles and Tommy Sneakers would lay in wait, waiting for John's signal, or signal to come out if something went wrong with the apartment.
Q. Once you and John Gotti, Junior got into apartment, did Tommy Sneakers and Carneglia actually come in?
Q. At this point in time, their positions in the family are what?
A. Soldiers with Johnny.
Q. In his crew?
A. In his crew.
Q. And we don't have to pull up the photo, but the same Tommy Sneakers and Charles Carneglia that we saw walking behind Bobby Boriello's casket?
A. That's correct.
Q. What happened -- where did Carneglia and Sneakers go once you got into the apartment?
A. Into that bedroom I told you about.
Q. Okay. Did they close the door?
Q. So now you and John Gotti, Jr. are alone in the front room. Who arrives next?
A. Jackie D'Amico.
Q. Did you have an understanding why Jack D'Amico was there?
A. He was part of the committee, and John wanted him to be there.
Q. And when he arrived, what happened?
A. He came in. John didn't tell him anybody was in that room or what was on his mind, just discussed this beef a little bit, they were talking as we waited for Joe Watts to show up and Marino and Gammarano.
Q. Where did you go to await the arrival of Joe Watts, Dan Marino, and Johnny Gammarano?
A. Downstairs in the street.
Q. And did you see some individuals arrive?
A. Yes. There was -- a limousine pulled up. Limousine driver. Joe Watts gets out, Danny Marino, John Gammarano, and Danny and Johnny's cousin, George Lombardozzi.
Q. To your knowledge, had Lombardozzi been invited to this meeting?
A. No, he wasn't supposed to come.
Q. What about the limo driver?
A. No, he definitely wasn't supposed to come.
Q. What was your reaction when you saw that there was now more people at this meeting than you had expected?
A. Nobody is getting killed.
Q. What happens next?
A. Bring them up to the apartment, sit down, everybody says, oh, sit down, they start to discuss this beef.
Q. And, remind us, what is the beef again?
A. Big Apple.
Q. And how was the beef resolved, what is the conversation?
A. Okay. How it is cleared up, John Sr. had given Joe Watts carte blanche to do whatever he wanted with Big Apple, or any moneys, or construction, anything he was doing, to bring money into the family, to fight cases 'cause of Gravano. Joe Watts had carte blanche. Once Joe Watts tells that to Junior, it is over, because of the relationship Joe Watts had with Senior. So there is no beef at that point. Not happy, but taking down millions of dollars. But that is the way it is. His father wanted it that way, and John respected it. So there was no need for killing anybody.
Q. Who left the apartment at that point?
A. Lombardozzi, Marino, and Gammarano.
Q. Joe Watts stayed behind?
Q. Then what happened?
A. The bedroom door opened up, and those two fellows came out. And Joe Watts, being seasoned in the killing business, knew what could have happened at that point and was really like startled and then upset.
Q. And what did he say?
A. He explained, expressed to Johnny, what happened, what were you going to do, kill these guys? He says, you know better, why did you bring Georgie and the limousine driver. What, are we gonna get a couple of more body bags?
Q. How did that meeting end that day, everyone just went on their way?
Underworld Construction Committee
Q. After this incident with Marino and Johnny G, this off-the-record deal that you had discovered, did you come up with any ideas as to how to prevent such off-record deals in the future?
A. Yes, I suggested to John, if it was okay with him, we start a panel, construction committee or panel. Whereas, we would have representatives from our family, exclusively, for construction. Anybody had a construction deal, put a nail on the wall anywhere, they had to come through the committee that was appointed. And then I suggested that I would like to bring it around to the other families, and see if they were okay with it. Because we'd be able to control all of these sneaky deals. I mean and then everybody would come into it, acknowledge it, and then if somebody had a sneaky deal, each family wouldn't acknowledge it, they get nothing, and then we take the deal over.
Q. You say you brought this idea to John Gotti, Jr. What was his reaction?
A. He loved it.
Q. And what about the other families, did you go about seeing what they thought?
A. Yes. I sent Garafola out to the other families.
Q. And what was their reaction?
A. They liked it also.
Q. So after the five families unanimously agreed that this was a good idea, was such a construction panel created within your family?
Q. And who was appointed to that panel?
A. Garafola, Delmonico, Gammarano, later on my brother-in-law, Frankie Fappiano, and then later on down the road, Richie Gotti, and Thomas Carbonaro, and myself.
Q. And who approved the appointment of all of these individuals to the committee?
A. I ran it all by John.
Q. Now, you said Johnny G actually gets appointed to the panel, the same guy that was ripping off the family?
Q. Is there any reason why he was included in the panel?
A. He knew the business really well, and we -- I had a talk with him.
Q. And, until your arrest in June of 2002, who was at all times the head of this construction panel within the family?
Q. And when you were the head of this panel, whom did you report to directly?
Q. And anyone after John Gotti, Jr.?
A. Pete Gotti, Richie Gotti.
Q. Now, when you were reporting directly to Gotti, Jr., you told us earlier you were kicking up the extortion proceeds directly to him; correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And I believe you said that no one, other than you, was allowed to put cash in John Gotti, Jr.'s hands?
A. That's correct.
Q. What about Peter Gotti?
A. My brother-in-law, Frankie, went in to him with the 23 money; when Frankie got involved, he would bring him that money.
Q. What do you mean the 23 money?
A. Any money that was made from the laborer's union, Frankie and Johnny G were going to handle that. Frankie or Johnny G would go to Pete and give him the money.
Q. And when you say "23" you're referring to local 23?
A. That -- I'm sorry, yes, local 23.
Q. And did there come a time that Fappiano actually assumed a position on the committee?
Q. This construction committee.
A. That's correct.
Q. And what was his particular area of responsibility from that point forward?
...MR. McGOVERN: Your Honor, we move at this time government's exhibit 700, a surveillance videotape of April 6, 1994.
THE COURT: I assume there is no objection.
MR. CARNESI: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right, received.
(Government's Exhibit 700 received in evidence)
Discussing the Connecticut Rackets
Q. And Mr. DiLeonardo, I'm directing your attention to the screen. And, before we begin, let me ask you, have you had an opportunity to review the video prior to your testimony here today?
Q. Okay. And just from this still that we have at one minute three seconds, can you identify the location of this video?
A. Yes. That is Foxwoods Casino, in Connecticut.
Q. And can you identify the individuals from left to right?
A. That is John junior, me, Frankie Fappiano.
Q. How did the three of you come to be at Foxwoods Casino in April of 1994?
A. John had a meeting with Barage and some of the individuals to discuss some of the Connecticut rackets. And there was a fight going on up there, Vinnie Pazienza. And John liked the fights, and got tickets and a hotel for us. Louie Brag, with the Connecticut rackets.
Q. Who is Louie Brag?
A. He was a captain with us.
Q. And the Connecticut rackets, were what?
A. Anything we had going on up there; shylock, bookmaking, anything that was going on, Louie was in charge of handling that along with Jackie Nose.
Q. And do you recall what the issue was involving the Connecticut rackets?
A. No, I don't remember the specifics, but it was about the rackets.
Q. Okay. And then the other things going on at Foxwoods was a professional boxing can match involving Vinnie Pazienza?
A. That's correct.
Q. Why don't we start the video, and stop it periodically, and you can describe the situation and what you recall. You can use the laser pointer, and you can narrate as we go through the video.
A. Yes. Frankie Fappiano had issues with Local 23. And Joe Brewster was having some problems with Louie Giardina's family. Louie Giardina was a soldier in our family, and had that union since when it first started through his father. They wouldn't let Joe Brewster into the office, even though he was a delegate in that local, and -- and some other things were going on. We couldn't put stewards and foremen on. And couldn't control these jobs without putting them there. And Louie's son was giving us a problem. And Johnnie G and Frankie were trying to handle this, and they were really annoyed, and three, wanted to bring it to John's attention, and that is why Frankie was brought up there, to talk.
Q. Okay. And we have the three, of you in the corner. Is there any reason that you are in that particular location?
A. Yes, there was a lot of cameras in there, and I wanted to put us in a -- in a corner where the public wouldn't be able the hear so well. We was in the corner. And I thought it was pretty safe. As you could see, Frankie is doing a little talking. I made sure his back was to the camera, so they couldn't lip read on the film if any were watching us. And my back is to the camera also. And I'm blocking John's view.
Q. Any reason you're standing?
A. Yes. We were just standing up. Like I said, it was just a -- security reasons.
Q. Okay. Were there other members and associates of the family that were on this trip with you?
A. Yes, there were several.
Q. Any reason why they were not participating in the conversation?
A. This was a need-to-know basis. Between John, myself, and Fappiano.
Q. And how did you know that there was actually a camera on you?
A. Oh, there was cameras all over. And, for some reason, I had a feeling we were being watched a little more closely when we first got there.
Q. And you said that the particular conversation that Fappiano was discussing was local 23?
Q. And I believe before, on the break, you told us that Fappiano was on the construction panel handling local 23 for the family?
A. Along with John Gammarano.
Q. Okay. You mentioned the Giardinas as being inside the 23. What was Louie Giardina's position in the Gambino family?
A. He was a soldier.
Q. And what is, in just two sentences, what is Frankie Fappiano putting on record here with John Gotti, Jr.?
A. Oh, the grievances we have with Louie and the union.
Q. All right. Do you see --
A. That is Jackie D'Amico coming over --xxx Louie brush.
Q. Why don't you use the laser pointer. Who else do you see?
A. That's D'Amico -- that was D'Amico. That is Frank Cali. Louie Brag.
Q. Who -- is Jack D'Amico still a captain at that point in time?
A. Yeah, he w as a committee member also, but he was not privy to this conversation.
Q. Okay. And Louie Brag?
A. He was captain with -- that is the guy from the Connecticut rackets.
Q. Okay. Anyone else in the photo, or the video you recognize?
A. Little blurry. This is Frank Cali, associate at the time. He later on gets straightened out with Jackie D'Amico. This is, I believe, Brad, he is with Louie Brag, big gambler. Let's see. This is Charley Fish, soldier with the Colombo family, associate of Louie Brag. Joe Fusaro who later on cooperates.
Mafia Access to FBI Reports
Q. Is there any particular reason why you were not including Joe Fusaro in your conversation at this point in time?
A. Yeah, there was a little suspect that he may have been a cooperator. We had seen some material in a 302 that might have alluded to him. But Louie Brag was vouching for him, and so it became, really, a non-issue. But he would never be included, he is only an associate anyway.
THE COURT: You used the phrase "302." Could you tell the jury what you're talking about?
THE WITNESS: It is an FBI affidavit that is written up when a cooperator sits down and speaks with -- debriefing.
THE COURT: You saw a 302? You saw FBI reports?
THE WITNESS: Oh, yes.
THE COURT: Do you know how you got those?
THE WITNESS: They usually are passed out from lawyers to -- to, you know, on the street.
Q. I'm just going to fast forward a little bit here, and tell us if you see any additional individuals joining the conversation. Or joining the group.
A. That is Little Mario, he is a wise guy with Louie Brag. This looks like, right there, is Joe Corozzo. He is an attorney. His father is Nicky Corozzo, his father is Joe Corozzo consigliere.
Q. Is Uncle Nicky Corozzo the same Nicky Corozzo that you said sat down with you and John Gotti, Jr. to discuss that attack on Curtis Sliwa?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you say Joe Corozzo, the lawyer, is he an associate of the family in addition to being a lawyer?
A. Oh, yeah.
Q. Any particular reason why he was brought to this occasion?
A. He is very close to John. He was house counsel at the time. He would do John's bidding, and lent an -- with all of the mobsters hanging around, it gave an excuse to the government that we were with a lawyer, gave us an air of legitimacy, let's say, that we had a lawyer, what could they be talking about with a lawyer hanging around.
Q. Fast forward it a little bit. Just describe the scene now.
A. I believe my brother-in-law, Frankie Fappiano, and Frank Cali leave, I believe they go home; some guys go home. And John, myself, Louie Brag, D'Amico, and a few others stay.
Q. And, again, just stop it there. That is you in the front?
A. That is me, John, Corozzo, and, I believe that is Cali or my brother-in-law, I can't --
A. That is my brother-in-law.
Q. Now, sir, you mentioned the Giardinas as being Gambino, a Gambino soldier, one of the Giardinas. And some other Giardinas on the inside of local 23. Can you just tick off for us, from memory, any other Gambino members and associates who had positions inside of local 23?
A. Joe Delmonico was a delegate. I believe his son, Joseph, Joe Giardina was the president. His daughter was Maria, was a secretary. He had another son that was a lawyer for the firm. He had just about his whole family in the union.
Opening a Construction Company
Q. Did there come a time after you were running this construction panel for to Gambino family, that you opened your own company?
Q. What was the name of that company?
A. Metropolitan Stone.
Q. And what kind of stone was that?
A. It was an aggregate business; stone. Road stone, concrete stone. It was stones.
A. Road stone --
THE COURT: Are you done with the video?
MR. McGOVERN: Yes, we are, Judge.
THE COURT: Could we turn the lights back up. Okay. Go ahead.
Q. This company that you opened, who did you open it up with?
A. Eddie Garafola and a friend of Eddie's, Vinnie Seminari.
Q. Eddie Garafola, Gambino soldier?
Q. Was it a legitimate, or illegitimate company?
Q. Why illegitimate?
A. Anything I touch is illegitimate.
A. Because I am in the mob. And anything I do facilitates my -- I'm there to make money for me, and the family, and, everything we do is illegitimate.
Q. When before you opened this company, Metropolitan Stone, did you put it on record with John Gotti, Jr.?
A. Well, I discussed the idea with him first. He liked the idea, and then gave his blessing to me.
Q. And after you and Eddie Garafola opened Metropolitan Stone, did you keep John Gotti, Jr. informed of your operations?
Q. I want to pull up on the screen government's exhibit 314. This is previously admitted into evidence. But let me ask you, do you see the date, April 7, 1995? And, three, lines down, the entry Mike, with the phone number, and the word Metropolitan. Do you recognize that entry?
A. That is my business number.
Q. The 718-356-1095?
A. That's correct.
Q. And that is the business number of what business?
A. Metropolitan Stone.
Q. And you see 315 A in evidence. Do you recognize what is written on this document?
A. Same number. Metropolitan Stone on the top.
Q. And the entry Mikey Scar?
Q. 3:15 B?
A. That's my beeper number at that time.
Q. And three,17?
A. That's, again, same number; my handwriting.
Q. Okay. That is your handwriting?
A. That looks like mine; yeah.
Q. After you opened this company, Metropolitan Stone, did there come a time that you were asked to do business with a company that was already on record with the Gambino family?
Q. And what company was that?
Q. The DiTommasos, who were they?
A. They were -- Joe Watts. They were a big outfit. They were doing a landfill job in Staten Island, covering the garbage.
Q. Do you recall what the name of their company was?
Q. Okay. And this Interstate company, you said that it was already with Joe Watts. Who was Joe Watts?
A. He was an associate of ours, close to the boss.
Q. And what did you understand the relationship to be between Interstate and Joe Watts?
A. They were with him, they answered to him.
Q. You said there came a time that Joe Watts brought you a proposition involving Interstate and DiTommaso’s. What was that?
A. Yes. When they started this job in Staten Island landfill, it was a massive job, and the need for teamster foremen to be put on that job. And he came to me and said that DiTommaso’s wanted to know if they could keep the teamster foreman off the job for the length of the job, and they were willing to pay hundred thousand dollars towards that.
Q. And why would it be to the DiTommasos benefit to keep a teamster foreman off their job?
A. Well, if they could get away with only paying a hundred thousand dollars over the course of that job, which would have been they would pay maybe half million dollars over the course of time, depends on whether they had the contract, they could save a lot of money and a pain in the neck on the job bothering everything.
Q. So to keep the Teamster foreman off the job, they were willing to pay $100,000 to whom?
A. To Joe Watts, essentially us, the Gambino family.
Q. When Joe Watts came to you with this proposal, what did he ask you to do?
A. He says I could get this hundred thousand dollars, see if you could do the favor because I was handling 282 at the time. Then him and I would whack it up, split it.
Q. What, in particular -- did he suggest that anyone else would participate in that hundred thousand?
A. No. He said that it could stay between us.
Q. What, if anything, did he say about telling John Gotti, Jr. about it?
A. Well, first I told him I couldn't do, that I would have to tell John and I would have to turn in the money.
Q. What was his reaction?
A. He got a little upset, a little panicked. He said, Do me a favor. Don't mention this to John. Keep it between us.
Q. What did you do?
A. No problem.
Q. You said no problem?
A. To him I said that, yes.
Q. What did you do?
A. I went back and told John.
Q. When you went back and you told John Gotti, Jr. about this opportunity to make a hundred thousand off the DiTomassos, how did you lay it out for him?
A. I told him that Joe Watts had told me that he tried to compromise with him with the hundred thousand. I told him that story. Then I said, you know, we'll go through it and see if we can do him the favor and we'll earn the money.
Q. Did he approve going forward, John Gotti, Jr.?
Q. Once you had John Gotti, Jr.'s approval, what efforts did you make through your control of 282 to keep the Teamster foreman off the job?
A. Well, Eddie said it was just about impossible to keep the Teamsters off the job in those days because there was a lot of scrutiny. We had trustees in our union, in 282. So we would try to keep them off partially, like put them on late in the job or take them off early in the job towards the end of it so we would try to work it out that way.
Q. Did the DiTomassos nonetheless agree to pay the hundred thousand?
Q. Did you work out any particular arrangement with the DiTomassos and their company, Interstate, as to how that hundred thousand would be funneled to you?
A. Yes. I wound up setting up something where, when we were selling them stone and transferring the dirt to them, in our bills I would make it reflect like 25 cents a ton on the stone and/or dirt, 25 to 50 cents on each yard or ton and would make up the difference of the hundred thousand -- the stone hypothetically, let's say it cost $20 a ton, I would make it $20.50 or $20.25 and then keep a record of that how much they paid us, paid into that.
Q. So is it fair to say you were inflating your invoices to the DiTomassos to mask the hundred thousand dollars that they were going to pay out to you?
A. Yes. So it would look legitimate.
Q. Did the DiTomassos, in fact, pay those inflated invoices to your company, Metropolitan Stone?
A. Yes, they did.
Q. Approximately how much of the money from this Teamster foreman proposition did the DiTomassos pay to you at Metropolitan Stone?
A. I believe it was about $60,000 they paid towards that.
Q. Did you share any of that money with John Gotti, Jr.?
Q. Did you work out any particular business arrangement with him by which you could funnel those proceeds to him?
A. Yes. John had a company called JAG, and John wanted checks. He didn't want any cash.
Q. Did he say why he didn't want cash?
A. Yes. He had too much cash. He didn't know where to put it anymore. He would invest in real estate, and if he got some checks coming in he would show them that he had legitimate money, supposedly legitimate money with the properties.
Q. Just to be clear, was this legitimate money that you were going to be sending over to John Gotti's Jr.'s company?
Q. So what was the particular arrangement that your company Metropolitan Stone entered into with John Gotti, Jr.'s company JAG Brokerage?
A. At the time when I was taking in all that landfill, all the dirt, I needed a screener. That's where the dirt is put on, by a machine into the screener, shakes all the dirt and put on a truck and then send it to the DiTommasos in the landfill, clean fill. I suggested to John, because I had located one on Staten Island, that he buy it, the screener. It was about $30,000, and that I would pay lease payments monthly to him for the screener. That's how, the first step we set up.
Q. Did John Gotti, Jr. actually purchase that screener for $30,000?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. After he purchased the screener, did he lease it to you according to plan?
A. Yes. I believe it was $6,000 or $6500 a month.
Q. All told, how much did you pay to John Gotti, Jr. in lease payments for that screener that cost him $30,000?
A. For the lease it was about $185,000.
Q. OK. Were there any other pieces of equipment that were involved?
A. Yes. As the money was coming in, I could have gave him more, so I asked him to get me another piece of equipment so he could bill me, have another bill. He said he had a broken backhoe hanging around the yard. I said, Well, ship it over to me, and then bill me for it every month. I believe the billing on that was about $4500 a month.
Q. When you say the backhoe was broken, what do you mean?
A. It didn't operate. It wasn't operable.
Q. So where did it sit?
A. It sat in my yard.
Q. Yet you paid $4500 a month in lease payments?
A. Yes. I didn't really need the piece of machinery. I just needed to get him a check.
Q. All told, the screener and the broken backhoe together, how much money in lease payments did you funnel from your company to John Gotti, Jr.'s?
A. At the top I believe it was about $11,000 a month at the most.
Q. That's the two payments coming together?
A. That's correct.
Q. Over time, what did that total up to?
A. Like I said, it was 185. And then later on I gave him another hundred thousand.
Q. 285 total?
A. 285, yes.
Q. Was that $60,000 in extortion money that you got from the DiTommasos for keeping the Teamsters off the job funneled to John Gotti, Jr. from your company to his?
A. Yes. That and other monies.
Q. What were the other monies?
A. Tony Genovese had that Brooklyn job with the prison going up. We sold him some stone. And some concrete deals that I did with Tony, with billing I would make up a bill that didn't exist for stone, like I sold him 500 yards of stone. He would pay the bill, but that was his payment to us, his extortion payment to us.
Q. All of these monies that you funneled to John Gotti Jr.'s company were in the form of checks?
Q. Let me show you what's marked for identification as Government's Exhibit 606. Could you look at those documents, sir, and tell us whether you recognize them?
A. I do.
Q. What are they?
A. These checks are from my company to JAG Brokerage.
Q. What do those checks represent?
A. These are the extortion payments.
Q. OK. And are they disguised, as you say, as lease payments for the screener and the backhoe?
MR. McGOVERN: Your Honor, we move 606.
MR. CARNESI: No objection.
THE COURT: 606 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 606 received in evidence)
MR. McGOVERN: Please bring them up on the screen.
Q. Mr. DiLeonardo, just using the laser pointer, walk us through what we're looking at here?
A. This is one of the final payments, like I said, the hundred thousand. Upon sale of Metropolitan to the DiTomassos, I gave John $100,000.
Q. This is one check we are looking at for $50,000?
A. That's correct.
Q. It says -- that's made out to JAG Brokerage. Again, whose company is that?
Q. And JAG stands for what?
A. John Angelo Gotti.
Q. Do you see the check signed by a Frances Garafola? Who is that?
A. That's Eddie Garafola's wife, my partner.
MR. McGOVERN: Can we see the next check in the series?
Q. This is a cashier's check in the amount of $50,000.
Q. What does this represent?
A. That's part of that $100,000. That's the final payment.
Q. Upon the sale of Metropolitan Stone?
A. That's correct.
Q. Can we see the next check, please?
Q. This is a June 16 of '97 check to JAG Equipment, and it says, First payment, $10,000.
Q. Do you recall what this was for?
A. It was the equipment, the lease of the equipment.
MR. McGOVERN: Can we see the next check.
Q. April 27 -- can you make out the date there?
A. April 27, '95.
Q. '95. Check from Metropolitan Stone to JAG, for $6500.
Q. What does that represent?
A. On the bottom it says screen rental. Right here.
Q. Again, that's the screener that you told John Gotti, Jr. to purchase?
A. That's correct.
Q. Can we see the next check.
A. Same thing.
Q. The same thing again, screener rental, $6500?
Q. So just in those two checks we are already at $13,000?
A. And the 10.
Q. And the 10.
MR. McGOVERN: Next check, please.
A. The same thing. Screener rental.
Q. Screener rental, '95.
Q. $6,500. The next check, please.
A. The same thing.
Q. The same thing? Another $6500?
A. That's correct.
Q. Next check?
A. Tough to make out. It looks like 4500.
Q. OK. What was the price of the monthly lease cost of the broken backhoe?
MR. McGOVERN: Can we see the next check.
A. The same thing, 4500 again.
Q. I am going to -- I believe there's one more.
A. 6500. This says December on the bottom.
Q. Another check, sorry, for another 4500?
A. That's correct.
Q. Can you make out this from the copy that's in front of you, 6500?
A. Yes, 7/31/96.
Q. The next check?
A. Same thing. 6500, 5/20/96.
MR. McGOVERN: Can we see the next one.
A. This is $11,000.
Q. Do you see the entry on the bottom left?
A. Yes. It says screener, and I can't make it out. One month rental, screener.
Q. It says slash mark, and then what's after the slash mark?
A. I can't make it out.
Q. It doesn't get any better, does it?
Q. What is the other item that would have comprised the 11,000?
A. The backhoe. The same thing, $11,000.
Q. Is that it? OK. Thank you. Now, in addition to Interstate, this DiTomasso company that you were extorting, approximately how many other construction companies were on record with the Gambino family in the 1990s?
A. A couple of dozen.
Q. Are you familiar with the company called Scara-Mix?
Q. What kind of company was Scara-Mix?
A. Concrete pouring company.
Q. On record with Gambino family?
Q. To your knowledge, how long has Scara-Mix been on record with the family?
A. That company is owned and controlled by Phil Castellano, which was Paul Castellano's son, so since he started that company in the '70s I believe that's how long it's been with us.
Q. During the time you were on the construction panel, how much was Scara-Mix paying monthly to the Gambino family?
Q. What, if anything, did Scara-Mix get in return?
A. Our protection and sort of an exclusive on Staten Island, that we wouldn't allow any other companies to come over the bridges either from Jersey or from Brooklyn to deliver concrete. We chased them off.
Q. You said that Phil Castellano owned this company during the 1990s. Was he the one making these payments to the Gambino family?
Q. Even though the Gambino family had killed his father?
A. This was business.
Q. Did he open up another company at some point in time?
A. Yes, American Redi-Mix Concrete Company.
Q. Was that company also forced to pay money to the Gambino family?
Q. How much?
Q. How often?
A. Every month.
Q. So collectively Phil Castellano was paying $15,000 a month to the Gambino family to run his business?
Q. Did you ever collect that money personally from Phil Castellano?
Q. I want to show you Government's Exhibit 131A through H.
MR. McGOVERN: I will move those at this time if there is no objection.
MR. CARNESI: None.
THE COURT: All right. Received.
(Government's Exhibits 131A through H received in evidence)
Q. Maybe we can bring those up. Do you have 131A through H in front of you? It might be a little easier to see there.
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Starting with 131A, do you see who is depicted in the middle of that photo?
A. That's me.
Q. Can you put the dot on it, because it is a little tough for us to see on the screen. OK. I think we'll get a little clearer as we go on. 131B?
A. That's me again.
MR. McGOVERN: Actually, I should say for the record, your Honor, there is a stipulation that these are surveillance photos taken in the vicinity of Goodfella's Pizza at 1718 Hylan Boulevard on Staten Island on January 24, 1995. 131C.
A. An envelope with Phil Castellano holding it.
Q. OK. Can you take a look at 131C in front of you?
Q. That's Phil Castellano in that photo?
A. Yes. It looks like him.
Q. OK. We will skip over 131D. How about 131E?
A. That's Eddie Garafola.
Q. And his position at this time?
A. He's a soldier with me.
A. Garafola again.
Q. 131G? That's very dark there. Is the book any better?
A. A little bit.
Q. OK. Finally 131H.
A. That's Phil Castellano.
Q. This is the same Phil Castellano you say was paying $15,000 a month to you?
A. That's correct.
Q. On behalf of the Gambino family?
Q. What did you do with all the money you were collecting on a monthly basis from Phil Castellano and his two companies, Scara-Mix and American Redi-Mix?
A. The $10,000, I gave the whole thing to John, Jr. The $5,000, Eddie and I took out one-third and turned in the rest.
Q. And just to be clear, were you allowed or permitted by the family to take out the one-third?
Q. Are you familiar with the construction company called Defoe?
Q. And was that company on record with the Gambino family?
Q. Who was the owner of Defoe?
A. John Amacucci.
Q. And who was Defoe and Amacucci, who were they on record with in particular inside the Gambino family?
A. Greg DePalma later on in the mid '90s.
Q. What about in the beginning?
A. He was a captain and an old timer out of the Bronx named Joe Zingar
A. He was with him.
Q. How did Defoe go from Joe Zingara to be on record or handled by Greg DePalma?
A. He died. Joe Zingara died. He laid dormant, being Defoe and that whole company for a while, and then Greg DePalma found him. He was drumming up some of the stuff that was left out there by Zingara and bringing it into Junior.
Q. What approximate time frame are we in here?
A. The mid '90s.
Q. The mid '90s. Who was Greg DePalma in the mid 90s?
A. He was a soldier with Louie Brash.
Greg DePalma's Connections
MR. McGOVERN: Could we bring up Government's Exhibit 8, which we will move at this time if there is no objection.
MR. CARNESI: No.
THE COURT: OK. Received.
(Government's Exhibit 168 received in evidence).
Q. Mr. DiLeonardo, do you see Greg DePalma shown in this photo?
A. That is correct.
Q. Can you recognize anyone else in the photo?
A. That's Frank Sinatra.
Q. Who is next to him?
A. Him I don't know. This is Carlo Gambino, who was the boss at the time. This is Jimmy Fratianno. He was the boss in California. And this was Joe Gambino. He was a captain from the Bronx. And this fellow I don't know.
Q. And the approximate time frame of this photo?
A. That's in the '70s.
Q. Prior to Carlo Gambino's death in '76?
A. Yes. Right.
Q. Tell us how Defoe ended up being on record or being handled by Craig DePalma.
A. Greg DePalma.
Q. I'm sorry. Greg DePalma.
A. Like I said, there was a lot of loose ends out there with the Bronx and the construction stuff after Zingara died, and DePalma was a very aggressive tenacious guy. He was out there trying to pull everything in, so to say bring furniture back to the house. And one of those pieces of furniture was Defoe.
Q. Did there come a time where you actually met the owner of Defoe John Amacucci?
Q. When approximately was that?
A. Around '95.
Q. All right. How did that come about?
A. He went with Junior to Morton's Steakhouse.
Q. Who did you meet there?
A. Greg DePalma, Craig DePalma, John Amacucci.
Q. This is Morton's steak house located where?
A. In Manhattan, mid Manhattan.
Q. What was the topic of the meeting?
A. I believe it was an introduction for Defoe, John Amacucci, to meet Junior.
Q. Did there come a time there was a second meeting among you and John, Jr. and John Amacucci, the owner of Defoe?
A. Yes. The same place, Morton's.
Q. All right. What happened at that meeting?
A. John was supposed on give John, let's say, a gift, a tribute between $25,000 and $50,000.
Q. Did there come a time that you learned John Gotti, Jr. had received that tribute from the owner of Defoe?
A. I believe he got $25,000.
Q. Who told you that?
A. John, Jr.
Q. Was Greg DePalma rewarded in any way for bringing Defoe back into the fold?
A. Yes. He made him an acting captain.
Q. Who made Greg DePalma an acting captain?
A. John, Jr.
Q. From the time that John Gotti, Sr. took over the Gambino family in 1985 with the murder of Paul Castellano until the date of your arrest, June 20, 2002, can you give the jury just a ballpark figure of how much money the Gambino family extorted from its control of the construction industry in New York?
A. Probably tens of millions.
Q. While you were head of the family's construction panel, did you ever fail to kick up to the administration any of the extortion proceeds that you collected for the family?
A. Yes. I held back over the years probably about $20,000.
Q. During that same time frame that you were on the panel, approximately ten years, how much of that extortion money did you place directly into John Gotti, Jr.'s hands?
A. I would say between a million and two million dollars.
Q. And each time you did that, did you tell him where it was coming from?
Q. What, in particular, would you say?
A. This is from Scara-Mix, this is from Valente, this is from Laquilla, or whatever the companies were.
Q. Whose decision was that? Yours or his?
A. John wanted know where everything came from. He liked to keep records.
Q. Did you also share with John Gotti, Jr. over the years any money that you and others extorted from companies outside the construction industry?
A. Yes. The stock market.
(Turn to Section 5)
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